Obama fans get used to being sold out

I am on record now as predicting a landslide victory for democrats both Presidential and Congressional somewhere short of Reagan's 1984 but bigger than Bush's 1988 victory.

There are many factors that will make this possible:

1. sky high African American turnout for dems

  1. msm that will pile on McCain in the last few weeks
  2. Bush fatigue
  3. natural political cycles over-reaching. It has gone from strong rep in 1994 and will go to strong dem in 2008.

but last and not least

5.  Senator Obama will show himself to be a skilled politician in the mold of, DARE I SAY? The Clintons.

That is how Georgia, Virginia, Colorado, New Mexico, North Carolina, and other Red states will become swing and ultimately light blue states this fall.

#1  example:

These states are full of Americans who supported the Iraq War in principle but feel that Bush has messed up the implementation.  They are fundamentally pro-war, but anti this war fought this way.

To win these people you have to be Pro-military, and make strong on defense arguments credibily.  WHICH OBAMA IS DOING.

But in doing so, he is selling out all of the people who thought he was a TRUE BELIEVER.  Once again, whether he votes for it or not, Obama (and dems) have  fully funded the War in Iraq.  
Now I agree with this.  Hillary agrees with this. But from the Primary you would think Obama was always against the war right?

I tried to show the facts during the Primary that Obama was not what he appeared to be.  Yet, the facts didn't matter.

Now I hope he continues down this path, BECAUSE IT IS RIGHT FOR THE NATION.

#2 Example:

The Fisa bill.  I support the democratic-compromise bill and think that this "constitutional talk" is overblown and ill-conceived.  Again. Hillary Clinton supports it.  But you would expect Senator Obama to be against Washington Insider deals, right?

But again, the Senator is showing that he wants to win more than be the poster child for the Left.

It's the right call.

All of you supporters who thought you were getting "real change you can believe in".  Get used to it.  Don't get despondent and start thinking 3rd party or boycotts or whatever.

#3 Example
Opting out of the Campaign finance System.  Which was a great move because Sen. Obama can now play in 50 states, and win some red states no one ever imagined like North Carolina, Georgia, or Alaska.   It was good politics to speak about Good Government and less money influencing politicians when you had a small chance of winning.   But now, Obama has shown that the rules were bogus in the first place.  Over a million people have donated and don't expect anything other than a good job.  

Freedom was the answer not more rules.  

Yet, once again, the "Obama's different" crowd must swallow hard.

I knew once the Obama team played the race card on the Clintons after N.H. that they were serious about winning and were conventional type pols using whatever advantage they could find.

I was on the wrong side of it for months as a Hillary supporter.

But now, I get the benefit of watching from the sidelines, enjoying this ride.

McCain is such a terrible candidate that I won't be shocked if Republicans find a way to dump him before November.

The best thing going for McCain is that no one else really wants to be blown out in November, so they might let him be the Dole of 2008 times 3.

I am happy Obama is dissappointing his followers from the Primary.  They deserve it.

They should have saw the signs and the evidence.

I predict, Obama won't propose or do anything of substance that would constitute real change. Including once he wins.

I predict troops will stay in Iraq under some agreement.

It's all fine with me.

I support what's best for the country.

Between McCain and Obama.  This Obama.

I take Obama.



Display:


Thank you for your insight (2.00 / 1)

Have a gold sticker.

You are a special, special snowflake.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:34:00 PM EST

Re: Obama fans get used to being sold out (none / 0)

It's a beautiful day here today. Supposed to be near ninety with mostly sunny skies. The last week was great - mid-80's and lots of sun. The only rain we had was after dark. Nothing to see here. Guess it's time to go mow the lawn.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:41:26 PM EST

Re: Obama fans get used to being sold out (none / 0)

Lovely here as well... Sunny, 75. Birds are chirping, trees are, um, treeing.

I wish I had some cake.


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i agree wholeheartedly, actually. (none / 0)

Obama was never a saint, just really good at his job.


BHO/HRC 08
by omar little on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:42:09 PM EST

I'm pleasantly surprised (2.00 / 1)

I wasn't sure if he'd be like a Dukasis type and stand up for the ACLU or not be insulted when a reporter used a horrendous hypothetical about crime that involved his wife.

But Obama is pretty good.
He reminds me of Olbermann.
I liked both of them before this Primary.  They were really tough opponents, but now it's good to be able to watch Countdown again.  Likewise with obama.

I worry about the cognitive dissonance though of the Obamamaniacs.


by yellowdem1129 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

At least yellowdem (2.00 / 2)

is honest.  The fake purity that I've seen from some of the former pro-Clinton blogs (e.g. Talkleft, now pro-Obama) is hilarious.  At least daily kos has been consistent on this issue; they are roasting Obama.

So a popular argument some Obama folks who have accepted triangulation is "Hillary would have done the same thing."  While the newly-minted purity proponents from some Clinton folks is that it doesn't matter what is Hillary's position because Obama is the leader of the party.  Really?  It doesn't matter what position the second most powerful Democratic politician in America holds?  The hypocrisy on both sides has been entertaining as hell this weekend.


by Blazers Edge on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:45:27 PM EST

By the way (2.00 / 2)

Todd Beeton has been one of the most consistent bloggers on our side; I'm darn confident that he would be holding Hillary's feet to the fire if she had the nomination and was doing what Obama is doing now.  I'm not so sure about some of the phonies at talkleft for example who claim to be centrists and then all of a sudden are beating Obama over the head for taking a centrist position.


by Blazers Edge on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:47:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By the way (2.00 / 1)

are beating Obama over the head for taking a centrist position.

Giving up bill of rights is not a DEM centrist position


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:14:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: At least yellowdem (none / 0)

Talkleft, now pro-Obama

You're funny!


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:51:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lol! (2.00 / 0)

Well, "change" is a funny word, init? Means different things to different people. Basically, it's just a slogan and is about exactly as meaningful as Hillary Clinton's "experience."

Yet Obama's track record on ethics reform and transparancy in Gov. speak for themselves, and that aint just a slogan. I'll be happy if he doesn't turn completely into the Clintons.

So I predict you're wrong. We'll all find out together. At least there's a real chance of true reform in an Obama administration--zero chance of that with McCain.


by Mystylplx on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:46:23 PM EST

BTW (none / 0)

When I say "I predict you are wrong" I didn't mean your prediction on the outcome of the election--I think you hit that one dead on. :)


by Mystylplx on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:50:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lol! (2.00 / 1)

Honestly, there's a better chance at reform with Mccain and Dem congress. Than Obama and a dem congress.  

See 1994.

But I'm not seeking the change people here want.

So I'm 100% with Obama.

The change I want is:

school vouchers
criminal justice reform
marketplace reform in healthcare and retirement
stronger environmental rules (cars and truck- pollution)
end the war on drugs and other victimless crimes

and so forth


by yellowdem1129 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:52:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lol! (none / 0)

All of that sounds good to me except maybe the school vouchers, and even that one I'm not convinced on one way or the other.

So is what you're saying that change happens easier if there's a split between parties RE. the White House and Congress? Sadly, I can't imagine any of the issues you mentioned getting the slightest bit of attention with a Republican Congress except those school vouchers. Even more sadly I can't imagine most of them getting attention even with a Democratic congress.

So I'll take what I can get. Ethics reform, Health Care reform and a sane foriegn policy will make me very very happy.


by Mystylplx on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:01:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mccain is actually a moderate (2.00 / 1)

trying to act "conservative".  In the past he would actually risk his career to make a good change:

see immigration bill
see Iraq War
see vote against tax cuts
see vote against anwar

So if somehow he won, with dems in control, He would operate between the parties and force real compromise.

Obama on the other hand is a leftwing dem.  We will have a leftwing congress. Which means the repubs will just work to block them as much as possible and hope for a better next election.
No chance of any real change with filibuster rules, and no party crossover.

Either way, my issues are pretty much off the table, unfortunately.

Over 50% of blacks of dropping out of school and we still talk about new "education plans".

So I take the least worst options, and work to make them better.  

I'm hoping for Obama/Nunn or Obama/Clinton or Obama/Gore


by yellowdem1129 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:08:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How leftwing is he really? (none / 0)

According to PoliticalCompass.org, Obama is barely to the left of Hillary and both of them are definite centrists, slightly to the right both socially and economically. Ever looked at that Web site? Taken the quiz to see where you fit? It's pretty interesting, actually. According to them, I'm oh so much leftier than any of the candidates except Nader, lol.

To see where the 2008 Primary candidates fit, go to http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimar ies2008

To discover your own political compass, take the quiz at http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

It's quick, it's fun, it's more or less accurate, though some of the questions are hard to answer yes or no. Just do it quick and without too much thinking about it. ;-)


by Swedie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:54:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mccain is actually a moderate (none / 0)

No offense intended here. As I said in another diary, there are many groups within the democratic party. You appear to lean more to the libertarian side than you do to the progressive side. Libertarians and progressives share some values, as do progressives and liberals, and progressives and conservatives, believe it or not. However, the most important issues for each group are not the same. What you want out of a new congress and president are not the same things I want to see acted upon. I know I won't get everything I want. I also know what we do get will probably be a compromise that I don't really like completely. That's the way the world works. At least, it will be a lot better than what we've had for the last 8 years.

One thing I notice about diaries like this one. It assumes people think Obama is perfect. This is a meme spread by our opponents. Hillary supporters spread this falsehood during the primary and the other side is continuing to spread it. There is no perfect human. There has never been one, despite the fables in some religious books. I hope all but a tiny minority know that Obama is only human. And, on top of it, he's a politician.

Obama has continually stated that he is a flawed person, just like anyone else. He has also stated that this movement is more about the people than it is about him. He's stated that he realizes that his success has as much to do with the timing as it does with him. What more do you want from him? Or do you just like spreading the meme that his followers think he's some kind of messiah?


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I would uprate this comment.... (none / 0)

...ten times if I could.

AMEN!


by Mystylplx on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:42:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lol! (2.00 / 1)

"At least there's a real chance of true reform in an Obama administration--zero chance of that with McCain"

-------------------

Why does Obama need to wait to initiate change?  As a powerful Senator he can start changing right now, today.  What's the hold up?

I wonder what will really change.  He hasn't done so much to change things up to now and that's why I don't think he will.

I believe that Obama's 'Change' is nothing more than 'Words'.


by wblynch on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:57:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lol! (none / 0)

He has. Long since. Look at the "transparency in government contracting" bill he co-sponsored and got passed last year. But he'll be able to do a lot more as President than as one Senator among 100.


by Mystylplx on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:23:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My contention was always (2.00 / 1)

that Hillary would do what was necessary to win.

that was "the old politics" to some.

I thought it was the "winning politics"

I always thought Obama got a free pass. Now I hope he keeps it through November.  

I can't imagine he won't.  The MSM is all-in.
They'd look like idiots to change now.

Dennis Kucinch (minus the racial aspect) was the change that many here and on the net were looking for.  He proposed real change.

He wasn't taken seriously.

Nor should he had been.

But somehow Obama seized the moment.
Congratulations to him.

I give him credit for showing his hand so early.
It shows confidence that he will win.


by yellowdem1129 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:50:00 PM EST

Many Obama supporters... (2.00 / 2)

are now standing around with their mouths agape trying to figure out when and how he became...

Hillary Clinton.


by Ed J on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:57:57 PM EST

Re: Obama fans get used to being sold out (none / 0)

At least you weren't condescending while getting in some dubious jabs.

I cannot wait to see what effort Obama puts forth behind his statement on stripping FISA of retroactive immunity.


Democrat for the democratic nominee
by KLRinLA on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:58:53 PM EST

Re: Obama fans get used to being sold out (none / 0)

What, exactly, is your point?


John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.
by ihaveseenenough on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 03:59:27 PM EST

Move along. Nothing to see here. (1.80 / 5)


by spunkmeyer on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:12:19 PM EST

Re: Move along. Nothing to see here. (1.66 / 3)

Troll-rated for disrupting the discussion with a stupid picture instead of offering comment on the subject matter.


If you want Unity, nominate a Democrat
by rankles on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:30:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Troll-rated by the troll. (2.00 / 0)

How original.


by spunkmeyer on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:32:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Troll-rated by the troll. (1.66 / 3)

Well, stop disrupting the discussion incessantly with inane little pictures and I won't TR you.

As it is, you deserve the troll rating.  What you're doing is the classic definition of troll.

Now, if you don't have anything constructive to add, just disappear.


If you want Unity, nominate a Democrat
by rankles on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 05:04:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

not so much being "sold out" (none / 0)

but that Barack Obama is a politician, not some godly reformer who is going to fix all of America's problem and end lobbying for good.


by Lakrosse on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:18:38 PM EST

Re: Obama fans get used to being sold out (2.00 / 1)

As a moderate dem and a former Clinton supporter, I have very mixed feelings about some of Obama's recent statements (on trade, Israel, FISA).  Politically, I like the stances he's taking and they make him more attractive to me.  I also think that opting out of public financing will make him an even more formidable candidate.

At the same time, it makes me a bit uneasy that Obama can change directions on so many issues, and reinforces for me that he has a do-anything, say-anything approach to get elected.

Oh well, at least we'll get a Democratic president.


by markjay on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:20:22 PM EST

race card? (1.00 / 1)

I was following along until you said this: "I knew once the Obama team played the race card on the Clintons after N.H. that they were serious about winning and were conventional type pols using whatever advantage they could find."

So pointing out someone using stereo types and blowing racist dog whistles is "playing the race card" now? One of the reasons I helped mobilize 90% of the African-American vote in my city to vote for Obama was so the next time Democrats politicians get the urge to race bait like the Clintons did for 18 months straight to turn out the bigot vote(i.e. you) they would have to think twice. I am glad I succeeded.


by TMP on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:52:51 PM EST

Re: race card? (none / 0)

I'm against racism - in any color.


by cameoanne on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 06:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you almost right (none / 0)

Obama never pretended he was the poster candidate for the left and some of the really left will be unhappy because Obama has always shown a willingness and a desire to hear from all sides and then make his own decesion

The funny thing is we wanted an indepedent candidate and now that we have one but we don't like it.


-7.33, -3.35 The song that best describes life
by drache on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 05:12:27 PM EST

Re: you almost right (none / 0)

Some people don't like it.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 08:48:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

sorry you're right correction noted (none / 0)


-7.33, -3.35 The song that best describes life
by drache on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 01:13:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama fans get used to being sold out (none / 0)

Give us a break. We do not expect Obama to be 100% pure. In all honesty, he wont lose many votes regardless of how he votes on the FISA issue. But it is imperative that people put pressure on him, otherwise such compromises can be habit forming. Nothing wrong with keeping the pressure on.


by Pravin on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:25:47 PM EST

Re: Obama fans get used to being sold out (none / 0)

Actually i know quite a few people will respect obama based on his explanation of how he votes more than what he votes for.


by Pravin on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 06:26:59 PM EST

Re: Obama fans get used to being sold out (2.00 / 1)

By and large, Obama supporters are not surprised by what he says and does. We've watched him, gotten to know him, recognize his approach to matters big and small. We support his candidacy, not because he's perfect, not because we're going to agree with him all the time, not because we worship him in blind devotion. We support him because he's the best person for the country in 2008. We know who he is, and what he's up against, and what has to be done. Even when he stumbles, we support him, because we know he's going to be on the right side far more often than not.

The majority of those suddenly expressing shock and/or disdain at his statements regarding FISA, roasting him for "selling out" and declaring that he's now lost their vote aren't his real supporters. They're either supporters of other candidates, or of the Republican opposition.

The only thing the GOP has left is to undermine that confidence, to get us to doubt and question our commitment to our nominee. They have to weaken our resolve, tarnish him, create second-thoughts, and divide us from ourselves.

Language such as that being used in the title of this diary plays right into that strategy, by the way.


"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it." -- Dr. Horrible
by BobzCat on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:47:21 PM EST

Been to Dkos lately (2.00 / 2)

Some of those there roasting Obama, threatening to cut off support, are not Republican trolls, but longtime purists.

Watch what happens when he votes for the bill in the Senate, they're gonna nuke him.

Maybe Clinton will get the nomination after all


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 10:46:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Been to Dkos lately (none / 0)

Oh, Dkos has always had its purists.

Trolling from the left has long been tolerated there, if not encouraged, as long as it doesn't openly advocate for non-Democratic candidates. And it's good for the Democratic Party to be challenged from the left, to keep the pressure on.

A lot of those longtime purists don't identify themselves as Democrats anyway, and many ot them blog there to promote aspects of the progressive agenda other than electoral politics.

Every now and then, usually in the context of an important vote, they all emerge at once to crow about how right they've been all along, assert how much smarter they are than everyone else, resurrect some old conspiracy theories, predict doom in November without their support, and once again declare the utter decrepit corruption of the Democratic Party and the government in general. In fact, you can find a bunch of them on recced diary there tonight, last I looked.

A lot of those purists would either never vote for Obama in the first place, or would never admit to it. And those who would are roasting him now naybe to shore up their purist online progressive credentials.

Meh. There's a lot of grandstanding going on in the blogosphere this weekend, at least regarding Obama. I'll wait until people actually have something to write about.


"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it." -- Dr. Horrible
by BobzCat on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:18:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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