Racism is four to twelve times worse than sexism

Every time I come to mydd I see at least one diary complaining about sexism.  Hillary is a woman, the argument goes. And Hillary lost. Ergo, Hillary must have lost because she's a woman.  While I would argue that there were several excellent reasons to oppose Hillary, I still agree that it's inevitable that any woman running for the presidency would have been faced with sexism.  However considering that Hillary was white and her main opponent was African American, the argument that she was the one discriminated against flies out the window.

A few facts below:

Blacks are 12% of America. Women are 50% of America.  And yet blacks are only 1% of the senate, and women are only 16% of the senate, which shows that both racism and sexism are huge barriers.  But while women have achieved 32% of proportional representation (i.e. 16/50), blacks have achieved only 8.3% of proportional representation (1/12).  What this means is that relative to their population, women have nearly FOUR TIMES as much political power as blacks.

Now lets look at wealth.  Women were only 12.75% of the people on Forbes 2004 ranking of the 400 richest Americans.  Since they are 50% of the population, that means they only achieved 25.5% (12.75/50) of their proportional representation among the economic elite.  By contrast blacks were only 0.25% of America's 400 richest, and since they're 12% of the population, they achieved only 2.08% of their proportional representation.  So when it comes to economic power, relative to their population, women have TWELVE TIMES the representation among well to do Americans as blacks have.

So while American women are dramatically underrepresented in positions of power and wealth compared to men, they are still nowhere near as oppressed as African Americans.  And I didn't even go into all the statistics showing women have longer lives and spend much less time in jail than blacks do.

So enough with all the whining about sexism.  Hillary had to deal with sexism, Obama had to deal with both racism and (because of his name) Islamophobia. McCain has to deal with ageism, and Kucinich had to deal with heightism.  Yet it's always Hillary and her supporters that monopolize the victim card, which is a pretty unattractive trait for a woman lucky enough to spend 8 years in the white house.


Poll
Which is worse?
Racism
Sexism
Islamophobia
Homophobia
Heightism

Votes: 21
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: Racism is four to (2.00 / 12)

Your numbers are correct, and I take your point.

But can't we agree that these are all societal ills that deserve our scorn?  It's a sad day indeed that the Democratic party is fighting amongst itself over which "ism" is the worst?  This is beyond childish, it's stupid.  I don't mean your diary, I mean this idiotic contest in general.

It's dumb when anybody does it.  


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 05:29:14 PM EST

Re: Racism is four to (2.00 / 3)

HEAR, HEAR! Why is the OP bringing up this dead horse again? As an African-American male, I have found that those who practice racism usually are sexist as well.
NEXT!
A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 12:50:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good point: (none / 0)

As an African-American male, I have found that those who practice racism usually are sexist as well.

Mojo for that.


by Swedie on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 02:53:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why are you doing this? (2.00 / 17)

Are you out to pick a fight, or what? You're only adding fuel to the "PUMA" flames by doing this. Both racism AND sexism are serious problems, and you're doing a disservice to efforts to fight BOTH by minimizing one to emphasize antoher.


Help Clintonistas for Obama help Democrats win! :-)
by atdleft on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 05:29:50 PM EST

Haha, I love your sig. n/t (2.00 / 5)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 05:49:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You know what pisses me off more than racism? (2.00 / 18)

Is when people try to say that homophobia is worse than racism, or sexism is worse than homophobia. All are terrible terrible things and we need to stop all of them. Having some bullshit dick measuring contest between racism and sexism isn't going to help us stop those two things.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 05:48:34 PM EST

Re: You know what pisses me off more than racism? (2.00 / 4)

I was going to post my own comment but I couldn't possibly come up with anything better than your comparison to a bullshit dick measuring contest.

Ranking these ills simply does nothing for us.  


by candidate D on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:19:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh no... (2.00 / 8)

not this conversation again...


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 05:48:45 PM EST

"whining about sexism" (2.00 / 6)

is a ReThug talking point, why mouth it here?

racism, sexism, homophobia, classism, we got 'em all, and they all hurt real live people.

absolutely bullshit diary, sorry.


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 05:50:32 PM EST

Re: Racism is four to twelve times worse than sexi (2.00 / 3)

Do you agree that sexism would affect more people since there are more women than there are blacks?

Wouldn't this make the degree of harm greater for sexism since it impacts 50% of the population?


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 05:51:24 PM EST

Re: Racism is four to twelve times worse than sexi (none / 0)

But that assumes blacks are the only race affected by sexism.  In fact every race with the exception of whites (who are currently on top) experiences racism, and the total number of non-whites in the world exceeds the number of women.


by greenboy on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:00:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is four to twelve times worse than sexi (none / 0)

I used the information you used to make my point. You didn't address other races in your numbers. And I didn't realize you meant the world when you quoted numbers from the U.S.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is four to twelve times worse than sexi (2.00 / 1)

Oh, god, are you for real?  Sexism and racism are not about MATH.


by daria g on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is four to twelve (1.00 / 1)

No, I won't agree to that.  It's an overly simplistic approach as it ignores intensity and lethality.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:07:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is four to twelve times worse than sexi (2.00 / 2)

Racism is not limited to African Americans.

So while the numbers you present are correct, you only address one race.

plus, this isn't a contest to see who is most oppressed.

[where are your Asian numbers? Hispanic? Native American? --Doing one that includes all minorities would win you major points in my book]


"Rankles and Rush Limbaugh, ruining the chaos brand since 2008."
by alyssa chaos on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 05:56:27 PM EST

Please now do the math (2.00 / 5)

on the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here because I think comparing the two is divisive and counter-productive.  

I just couldn't let your math based argument go unchallenged.  Comparing racism to sexism is impossible.  They are both horrific, they are both wrong, they are both prevalent and that's about all they have in common.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:01:25 PM EST

You conveniently left out these stats.... (2.00 / 8)

The House of Representatives is approximately 9.2%  African American.......and since AA Americans are 12%, they are only 3% off
Women in the House are 15%.....and since they are 50% of the population.....oh well

When it comes to representation in Congress overall, AAs fare better...IF you want to make this a contest.

The bottom line is this.....sexism has hurt women and we can play the stats game over and over. It won't change your bitterness toward Hillary supporters. You have been cheering on the likes of Chris Matthews for a long time. Apparently you want to justify your support of a sexist media network and all the guys there that you admire.


by Jjc2008 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:01:30 PM EST

Re: You conveniently left out these stats.... (none / 0)

I also left out governors.  Only a couple blacks have served as governor of a state, but dozens of women have. I agree my review could have been more exhaustive, but I doubt it would change the overall picture.


by greenboy on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:13:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you watch "Curb Your Enthusiasm"? (2.00 / 4)

On one episode, a character invited another character for dinner, and told the second character they were also inviting a "survivor" (meaning an elderly Jewish Holocaust survivor).  The second character, taking the reference incorrectly, said, I know a survivor, too, I'll bring him.  Well, the second character shows up with a former contestant on "Survivor".  
At dinner, the two "survivors" started fighting over who had it worse.
It was typical offensive, bad taste, absurdist, border line antisemitic-joke-that-only-a-Jew-could-t ell  Seinfeld/ David humor.
The point was how absurd arguments over competitive suffering could be.  Whether your ancestors were lynched, or raped, or marched out of Armenia, or forced on to the trail of tears, or thrown in ovens, etc etc etc, it's ALL bad and I think God thinks all the perpetrators equally sinned.  I don't think He says a racist lyncher is a bigger sinner than a raping sexist.  IMHO.
John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:22:04 PM EST

racism (1.50 / 2)

Reverend Wright made racist statements. We're you upset with Wright?


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:43:54 PM EST

since you clearly do not know the definition... (1.33 / 3)

of racism, i'll post one here:

While the term racism usually denotes race-based prejudice, violence, discrimination, or oppression, the term can also have varying and hotly contested definitions. Racialism is a related term, sometimes intended to avoid these negative meanings. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups. The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular racial group, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief. The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as: "the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others."

it's incredibly sad that you are so ignorant of what constitutes racism...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 07:04:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're ignorant IMO (1.50 / 2)

I think you're the ignorant one. Apparently, you don't understand the meaning of racism.

Reverend Wright's generalization toward whites was racist.

FYI; "rich white people" was not meant to be a complement. BTW, the majority of white Americans are not rich.

Racism

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

If you want to discuss racism, be prepared to discuss Reverend Wright; MANY people believe he's racist.
----------------------------
Also

Reverend Wright believes in "Black Liberation Theology." He admits that he does. "Cone" was the creator of "Black Liberation Theology." According to Cone, if white people "that have all the power" want to become Christians, they have to give up their power. IMO, this Theology is based on racism.

 


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 07:36:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're ignorant IMO (none / 0)

Actually the majority of white Americans are extremely rich, compared to the world population as a whole.  As long as whites and men as a group have more power than blacks and women, it is impossible to be racist against a white or sexist against a man.  Because racism and sexism can be defined as discriminating against members of a less powerful race or gender, respectively.  


by greenboy on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 07:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're ignorant IMO (2.00 / 4)

actually the majority of AMERICANS (note - no race here) are extremely rich compared to the world populate as a whole.


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 08:04:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're ignorant IMO (2.00 / 1)

Actually the majority of white Americans are extremely rich, compared to the world population as a whole.
Back that up with statistics/links.

As long as whites and men as a group have more power than blacks and women, it is impossible to be racist against a white or sexist against a man.Because racism and sexism can be defined as discriminating against members of a less powerful race or gender, respectively.
This is false. See below for the definition of "racism."

---

Racism

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 08:06:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

feel free to show where wright said... (2.00 / 1)

blacks are superior to whites.  i can't tell if you are truly this stupid or simply need to repeat racist frames in order to feel good about yourself.   if you have evidence that wright discriminates against whites, that'd be good, too -- although we all know that isn't true, given the fact that he had white christians in his congregation.

you seriously need to look deep into your heart.  the fact that you need to project racism upon wright (and others) should be deeply troubling.  there is something very askew in your world...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:43:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feel free to show where wright said... (1.50 / 2)

feel free to show where wright said blacks are superior to whites.
Reverend Wright believes in "Black Liberation Theology." See the cone video above for more info on this theology.

i can't tell if you are truly this stupid
Insulting people that you disagree with is a lazy way to address an issue.
or simply need to repeat racist frames in order to feel good about yourself.
"frames" <---What the hell are you talking about?
if you have evidence that wright discriminates against whites, that'd be good, too
IMO, the belief of "Black Liberation Theology" DOES discriminate against whites.
you seriously need to look deep into your heart.
You don't know me. It's not your place to suggest moral values for me.
the fact that you need to project racism upon wright (and others) should be deeply troubling.
Only Reverend Wright and Cone since they both believe in "Black Liberation Theology." Did you watch the Cone video? Most likely not. Get back to me when/if you take the time to watch it.


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feel free to show where wright said... (1.66 / 3)

Pure vile racism soyousay.  I never thought I'd see such hate on a liberal blog.  I'm stunned.


Hillary 4 life.
by Hill4Life on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feel free to show where wright said... (1.50 / 2)

Who Reverend Wright? Yes, he's racist, IMO.


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:05:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The truth shall set you free. (1.50 / 2)

Even the Wall Street Journal acknowledges Wright's "racial rants."

There is no doubt that Rev. Wright's inflammatory racial rants hurt Sen. Obama badly during the primaries. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12127093 4203350365.html?mod=googlenews_wsj


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:11:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The truth shall set you free. (1.00 / 1)

Racial.  NOT racist.  He made rants based on race.  Obama didn't want to make race the issue in the campaign, and Wright made it front and center.  

You are trying to defend a racist smear against Obama, and failing miserably.  Stop while your ahead.  I haven't seen racism on this blog until today.  You are engaging in pure racism.


by HardWorkingWhitePerson on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The truth shall set you free. (1.50 / 2)

Racial.  NOT racist.  He made rants based on race.
Yes he did and IMO, generalizing white people is racist.
Obama didn't want to make race the issue in the campaign, and Wright made it front and center.
...and that's one of the reasons Obama distanced himself from Rev. Wright.
You are trying to defend a racist smear against Obama, and failing miserably.
I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy when it comes to this issue. Everyone wants to talk about racism unless it's about Rev. Wright.
Stop while your ahead.  I haven't seen racism on this blog until today.
You are a hypocrite, IMO.
You are engaging in pure racism.
Because I called out "Black Liberation Theology?" It's a racist theology IMO because it's extremely divisive. I'm going to call it the way I see it whether you like it or not. For you to point the finger at me and accuse me of racism suggests that you are fearful of an honest disscussion on the issue.


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:50:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feel free to show where wright said... (1.50 / 4)

And yes,  I just watched that video.  I saw nothing racist about it.  For you to have found that racist means one of three things.  You're a racist,  you're being dishonest, or, you're high.  Do you hate Obama so much that you'll sink as low as using racism based smears?

That's is profoundly disgusting.


Hillary 4 life.
by Hill4Life on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feel free to show where wright said... (1.50 / 2)

So you're Ok with reparations? A yes or no will do.


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:42:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll bite... (none / 0)

Even though I've been staying out of the rest of the thread...

I am a white male in favor of reparations.

However, this applies only if they are structural in nature.  I'm not talking about just writing a check and then washing our hands of the whole issue, while ignoring the structural racism that has existed in this country for centuries and still exists to this day.

And the reparations should not go only to blacks, though they should be a major beneficiary; other minorities are also justly deserving, like native Americans to pick a prominent example.

The "A More Perfect Union" address covered the subject with excellence.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 12:17:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I appreciate... (1.50 / 2)

...you addressing this issue but I disagree with your stance. Here's the reason I disagree; reparations are basically unaffordable. I don't know whether you've noticed or not, but our economy isn't doing so good. Also, as you pointed out, if you give one group repartaions, another group will expect the same.


by soyousay on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 12:29:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i understand you can't prove your points... (none / 0)

which is the point of my comment.  i also understand your deep need to believe the crap that you believe.  it's sad.  it's really sad.

i wasn't being insulting.  i was trying to understand why you would make such ridiculous claims.  thankfully, your arguments exposed that.  like i said, it's just sad.

i couldn't care less if you think black liberation discriminates against whites.  you've already demonstrated a deep ignorance of this.  while i can't claim to be an expert in black liberation theology, i at least attended seminary.  i do know enough to understand that your interpretation is not only flawed, but seeks to pervert the rational of the theology wright and others raised.  but then, you seem to need to do that to justify to yourself that it's ok to have the views you have.

it's not.  racism is not acceptable in our society.  your need to project racism on the victims of racism is pathetic.

if you mean what you write, it is easy to conclude that you are racist.  you seem to think that it is socially acceptable to be racist, as long as you can project that on racism's victims.  that's disgusting.  you do not value what we in this country value, which is freedom and equality.  i'd seriously question whether you have any moral values at all...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 12:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: racism (2.00 / 1)

Actually Rev Wright is the opposite of a racist. He fights for black power.


by greenboy on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 07:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and expects whites to pay.... (1.00 / 2)

for their ancestors wrong doings which is ridiculous, IMO.


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 07:39:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

another lie... (2.00 / 1)

none of your "ridiculous" claims can be supported by fact.  i'm pretty sure you knew that...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:49:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I provided facts. (2.00 / 1)

I provided the "Cone" video above. Did you listen to it? Wright believes in "Black Liberation Theology." Cone is the creator of this theology.

Stop accusing people of lying. You really need to research before making accusations.


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:53:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you didn't provide anything... (2.00 / 1)

but an insight into your deeply disturbed values.  i'm not particularly convinced by your distant associations with your claims.  given the breadth of wright's sermons, if you can't prove it from a direct quote, you can't prove it at all.

you've made wildly ridiculous accusations and can't back them up.  but i'd expect that from someone who thinks like you...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:58:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you didn't provide anything... (2.00 / 1)

Did you watch the video? Yes or no?


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:21:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you didn't provide anything... (1.00 / 1)

since the video has nothing to do with barack, why would i?  to make you feel better about your extreme prejudice?  i won't do that.  i am shocked that anyone with your views would air them publicly.  you clearly have been following the white supremicist playbook...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 12:16:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you didn't provide anything... (none / 0)

This diary was about racism. NOT Barack. You have a one track mind.

Cone is a racist IMO; you refuse to watch the video, therefore you prefer to remain ignorant. Since you didn't watch the video and you don't know what you're talking about...shutup.


by soyousay on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:15:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you didn't provide anything... (none / 0)

if you really believed that, you wouldn't have made the idiotic attempt to relate it to wright and barack.  yes, you failed.  mostly because you simply don't know what you are talking about.  if we wanted a racist's view of racism, we'd be at red state...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 04:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: racism (1.50 / 4)

Bashing 'black liberation theology' usually comes from closet racists, and occasionally the uninformed Hannity/Rush sheep.  I've read up on black liberation theology extensively, and there is nothing racist about it.  For you to be pushing this meme that Wright is racist is about as racist as it gets.

Also, I'm white and think Rev Wright is a nutcase.  Please stop spreading racist right wing talking points here.  What your doing is saying Wright is a racist, and by extension Barack must be racist because he sat in a racist church.

Race baiting should be ban-worthy, soyousay.  That talking point is the most hate filled racist lie there is.  Shame on you for repeating, let alone believing it.


Hillary 4 life.
by Hill4Life on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:59:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: racism (2.00 / 1)

Bashing 'black liberation theology' usually comes from closet racists,and occasionally the uninformed Hannity/Rush sheep.
You're entitled to your opinion. That being said, I watched the cone video and thought that he's a divisive person. Cone has a very distorted viewpoint, he's blaming the ancestors of those who did wrong....and that's wrong in my opinion. He stated that he believes in reparations. Do you? How are we ever going to come together if we keep blaming each other and expecting payment for the past?
I've read up on black liberation theology extensively, and there is nothing racist about it.
I believe it is. It divides people, it doesn't unite people. Some of us happen to believe that everyone should be treated equally. "Black Liberation Theology" seperates people.
For you to be pushing this meme that Wright is racist is about as racist as it gets.
Wright is racist IMO. Wright DOES have issues, if he didn't, Obama wouldn't have thrown him under the bus.  The Wall Street Journal refers to Wright's rhetoric as a "racial rant." Apparently, I'm not the only one who has a problem with his rhetoric. For you to try to turn this around and call me a racist is ridiculous. I realize that if you admit that Wright is a racist, you must admit that Obama has poor judgement. I understand your dilemma.
Race baiting should be ban-worthy, soyousay.
You don't seem very upset about this diary which I didn't create...but speaking of race bating... Obama recently played that card.


by soyousay on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is four to twelve times worse than sexi (none / 0)

How dare you??!!  When they are selling lynching nooses as jokes in the airports & people think it is no big deal we can talk again about who has it worse. Or when they make fun of a particular race for wearing professional clothing as though it is some big acceptable, laughable patronizing joke then we can reconvene. But for right now this diary has some nerve!!  And out of civility I just erased the beginning of my comment but I am beyond angry. No I am not a professional victim; I'm just angry at the awareness I had to realize during this primary about the joke that is my gender trying to do anything prof'l to the rest of the country, even the more progressive members. WTFever.  Seriously this diary needs to go.  I am livid right now.


by jrsygrl on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 07:13:02 PM EST

Re: Racism is four to twelve times worse than sexi (1.00 / 2)

Interesting. Maggie Thatcher in Britain had no trouble being taken seriously. Neither does Angela Merkel of Germany.

Perhaps the reason Hillary is a laughing stock is because she thought being a former first lady made her qualified to be commander and chief.  You can argue that is sexism but I guarantee that a man who tried to run for president based on his wife's resume would be receive far more ridicule than Hillary.  


by greenboy on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 07:52:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Might wanna try again. (2.00 / 1)

Um, Hilary's Senate experience is 3 times what Obama's is.  Or are you claiming that 'community organizer' is a legitimate qualification for CinC?  


by KathleenM1 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 08:08:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

2 terms = 1 term x 2 (none / 0)

Not 3.  Math is hard.


by JJE on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 08:11:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What about the decade (none / 0)

Obama spent in the IL state senate. Or does this not count as experience?


by SocialDem on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:46:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What about the decade (2.00 / 1)

senate job is a part time job.. and in that too.. he didnt do well given he pressed wrong buttons six times and voted "present" quiet a few times. whereas Hillary was there doing what she needed to do and express her votes to reflect her ideals. you definitely cannot compare 173 days of experience with atleast 6X365 days of experience.. can you?


by gladiatorsback on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You also fail to realize that a US (none / 0)

senate job is part time as well. It's not like they are in session 365 days a year. If you want to argue senate tenure you must concede that his state senate terms was experience as well. Also if you want to talk about bad votes you need not only look to Hillarys AUMF vote, and Kyl-Lieberman vote. But I really don't want to bring back old scars.


by SocialDem on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:27:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What about the decade (none / 0)

"he didnt do well given he pressed wrong buttons six times and voted "present" quiet a few times."

And also ask yourself, out of how many thousand votes?


by SocialDem on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:28:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What about the decade (none / 0)

so if you cannot press the correct button out of two buttons... then I dont know what that means.. how difficult is it to press correct button... even my 6 year old son can do it 100% correctly.. irrespective of how many times u ask him to repeat.. so there.. obama is worse than a 6 year old kid.. and he is voting on issues that concern real people.. my son is only pressing buttons for fun..

and yeah people make judgements you do not agree with.. so live with it.. atleast she is better than senator obama who conviniently ducked the vote altogether and went on to search for reasons..


by gladiatorsback on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:36:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Look, i'm not for a (none / 0)

fight but trying to give some perspective here.

"so if you cannot press the correct button out of two buttons... then I dont know what that means.. how difficult is it to press correct button... even my 6 year old son can do it 100% correctly.. irrespective of how many times u ask him to repeat.. so there.. obama is worse than a 6 year old kid.. and he is voting on issues that concern real people.. my son is only pressing buttons for fun.."

Classic fallacy but fun. I'm not arguing who had the most correct votes. But you seem to hold Obama to a higher standard in this regard than you do to Hillary. By your logic any politician who you perceive to vote the wrong way on an issue (without proper context of why I might add) that disqualifies them? So then by that logic would Hillary if held to the same standards you hold Obama be disqualified because of her Iraq vote? The obvious answer is NO. Because it all depends on who the person is that is taking those votes into consideration. Can I ask which "6" votes he got wrong?


by SocialDem on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:42:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Look, i'm not for a (none / 0)

we are not talking about correct votes.. we are talking about his inability to press correct buttons to vote the way he wants to.. here is some context..

Obama said oops on 6 state Senate votes
He pushed the wrong button, he asserted at the time. Two of the admitted flubs were on hotly contested issues.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/ nation/la-na-obamavotes24jan24,1,7079399 .story

think about it this way.. obama will have nuclear weapon handles in his hands once he becomes president.. lol the russians will be darned worried that he has trigger in his hands.. not knowing which buttons to press :P

he will defnly need plenty of practice on nuclear triggers once he becomes president.. atleast lets hope practice teaches him to press right buttons :)


by gladiatorsback on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:58:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL (none / 0)

I am sorry but this is even more ridiculous than what I originally thought you were talking about.


by SocialDem on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

err hit the 'post' too soon (none / 0)

You really can't be serious about this?


by SocialDem on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:05:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

sure... (none / 0)

i know that it's popular to elect people who are as isolated from average americans as hillary has been for most of her adult life, but i actually like the fact that barack has real world experience helping people change their lives for the better.

i'm sure being in the east wing will teach you something, but there's a reason why barack represents the politics of the future instead of the politics of the past.  perhaps it's even the reason why he won the democratic nomination.  time for change...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:53:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sure... (none / 0)

what future.. the people whom obama claimed to represent are still living in slums of chicago with dilapidated buildings.. dont get me started.. Obama is phenomenally better than mccain and thats why he deserves my support.. that doesnt mean you can get away with lies.. the people whom he represented are still in rezko flats without power and electricity.. so much for community organising.. if thats the future of politics.. then it definitely stinks!


by gladiatorsback on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i'm sorry you hate poor people... (none / 0)

while i was specifically speaking to her point about barack's experience as an organizer, i can't believe that you support mayor daley's efforts to rid chicago of poor people while criticizing barack's agreement with progressives that affordable housing requires support.  that's truly pathetic...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:02:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i'm sorry you hate poor people... (none / 0)

huhhhh??? now you call me hater of poor.. talk about slogans which you believe should be stuck to anyone who doesnt agree with you.. geez..

neways what In meant was .. Obama had lot of chance to make a real impact by getting people affordable "good" housing.. not dilapidated house without power.. without roof.. basic amenities.. I believe housing is a fundamental right and government should do whatever it can to help people live in affordable houses.. however that doesnt mean you can cram 40 people into stinky shitholes without power or proper sanitation.. this is AMERICA.. most advanced and richest nation in the world.. dont subhumanize your fellow citizens.. they deserve same kind of houses you live in and blog in..


by gladiatorsback on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:09:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i'm sorry you hate poor people... (none / 0)

you're right, you don't agree with me.  i have no idea why you would support mayor daley's oblique attempt to cleanse chicago of the poor, or why you oppose obama's efforts (like other black politicians on the southside) to bring affordable housing to chicago.  clearly, you only want to whip barack with it.

i'd love to know all these opportunities that barack had to reverse daley's efforts.  any example would do.

and don't bs us.  you attacked barack for his work with southside pols to bring affordable housing to chicago.  you clearly object to their efforts.  you want to give a lofty slogan and then criticize those who are in the trenches working to bring affordable housing to the poor.  you are, afaict, full of it...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 12:23:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sure... (2.00 / 2)

And now Hillary Clinton doesn't have real experience helping real people. Yeah she only has DECADES of experiencing bringing about major reform - ya' know no big deal @@

You know there is NO WAY IN HELL a man with her background would ever have their experience trivialized the way hers has been.


by jrsygrl on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:45:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sure... (none / 0)

i know that it's popular to elect people who are as isolated from average americans as hillary has been for most of her adult life

HRC is not and never has been isolated from "average" Americans. She connects with people who are average economically. That's why blue collar and pink collar workers overwhelmingly prefer her to Obama. And maybe that's one reason "elite" people overwhelmingly preferred Obama.  Clinton's close family was not professional. She went to public school like most "average" Americans. In contrast, most or all of Obama's close family are professionals and he went to an elite private school.

...barack has real world experience helping people change their lives for the better.

I would like to read about Barack's real world experience changing lives for the better and then a comparison with Clinton's real world experience changing lives for the better, and then an analysis of which candidate has the most experience producing real and lasting change.

he won the democratic nomination

Obama didn't win the Democratic nomination. Voting begins in August.


by Nancy Kallitechnis on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 03:45:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you've obviously never met hillary... (none / 0)

yes, her rhetoric and her reality are at odds.  i was speaking from the perspective of someone who has actually talked to hillary 8 times in the last 8 years.  i can't think of anyone more isolated from the real world whom i've met in the same period of time.

but then, i deal in the real world.  that may be the difference right there...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 12:24:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the real world (none / 0)

No, I've never met Hillary but I've seen hours of video appearances of Hillary, have read her biography, have talked with people who met her, and have watched a lot of the The Hillary I Know videos...

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p= F4DAC3EA3738244F

Considering that she actually lives in the real world and has experienced many aspects of it personally and from meeting with people worldwide I disagree Hillary is isolated from the real world.


by Nancy Kallitechnis on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 06:20:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is four to twelve times worse than sexi (none / 0)

You need to hit your history books regarding Hillary Clinton's qualifications.  Regardless, even if your ridiculous assertion that she wasn't qualified was true - not sure why her gender was the root of the jokes. You know I'm not very keen on Obama's lack of qualifications however I never made reference to his race to mention it or dig at him.  One is irrelevant to the other.


by jrsygrl on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 08:54:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is four to twelve times worse than sexi (2.00 / 1)

Maggie Thatcher in Britain had no trouble being taken seriously.

After being elected Leader Thatcher recalled, "There was much male chauvinist hilarity-"Give us a kiss Maggie, etc." (The Path To Power, page 284.)

...she [Hillary Clinton] thought being a former first lady made her qualified to be commander and chief.  You can argue that is sexism but I guarantee that a man who tried to run for president based on his wife's resume would be receive far more ridicule than Hillary.

Apparently you don't realize that Hillary Clinton is well-qualified to be president because of her accomplishments, character and leadership ability:

In 1997 Hillary Clinton helped create the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), which was the largest expansion of health insurance coverage for children in the U.S. since Medicaid began in the 1960s.  By 2006 SCHIP provided health insurance for 6.6 million children.

Senator Clinton co-sponsored the Employment Non-Discrimination Act and the Matthew Shepard Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act.

Clinton helped foster children find homes.  She initiated the Adoption and Safe Families Act which was signed into law in 1997. By 2002 the law had increased foster adoptions by 64% nationwide.

Hillary Rodham Clinton was a chief advisor to the President during an 8 years term which dramatically improved the lives of Americans with...

  • the longest economic expansion in U.S. history
  • the lowest poverty rates for single mothers, black Americans, and the aged
  • successful elimination of a massive deficit and creation of  record-high surpluses
  • the lowest unemployment since the early 1970s

http://www.allseasonsgallery.info/hrc/hr c.accomplishments.html


by Nancy Kallitechnis on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:11:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is four to twelve times worse than sexi (1.00 / 1)

Hillay helped with this, helped with that. It's one thing to jump on the band wagon of somebody else's initiatives, quite another to show leadership, and I have yet to see evidence that Hillary ever had and yet to see evidence of Hillary getting ANY important position without nepotism.  As for the Clinton admin, the most significant thing she did there was mess up health care reform so badly that according to David Broke, dems lost congress for the first time in decades, which of course led to Bush having unprecedented power when he got into office.  After the health care fiasco, Hillary was relegated to tradition first lady duties like writing books and traveling the world and kept out of policy.  As for the decline in black poverty, it's not hard to get those numbers down if you throw enough people in jail, as black incarceration rates were high during the Clinton years.  Are you denying that welfare reform created poverty?


by greenboy on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:39:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

politics/leadership (none / 0)

The way politics works is that people get together in groups and get something done. FDR never accomplished any great things without other politicians' help.

It's one thing to jump on the band wagon of somebody else's initiatives, quite another to show leadership, and I have yet to see evidence that Hillary ever had...

You make a mistake in assuming it is not possible to be a leader by joining other's initiatives. Did Commander Eisenhower not lead the U.S. army to victory just because he did not initiate WWII? Was Bill Clinton not a leader in fighting violence just because the Violance Against Women Act he gave presidential approval to was created by Joe Biden's office? Was Clinton not a leader in getting rid of the debt and creating a surplus just because he had help doing so? Was Alice Paul not a leader of the women's suffrage campaign  just because she did not initiate the fight for women's right to vote? Leaders, for the most part, lead by working with others and jumping on the bandwagon.

One example of HRC initiating a project is her 2008 presidential campaign. You would find examples of HRC's other initiatives if you researched. For example, in 2003 Senator Clinton and Karen St. Hilaire founded the Northern Adirondack Trading Co-operative (NATC) to improve the economy in rural NY. By 2005 NATC had increased profits for local businesses by $500,000. The World Chamber of Commerce analyzed the Clinton/St. Hilaire plan and concluded that it was one of the most innovative projects in the world (http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/19/1441 29/627). Perhaps you are an Obama supporter. Can you tell me something Obama founded and led that has been successful in the long-term?

...evidence of Hillary getting ANY important position without nepotism.

-president of Wellesley College student government
-first female partner at the Rose Law Firm
-first female Senator of NY (elected twice by the people, not relatives)

After the health care fiasco, Hillary was relegated to tradition first lady duties like writing books and traveling the world and kept out of policy.

No, after universal health care wasn't passed she became deeply involved with SCHIP which it is known could never have been passed without her work. The SCHIP legislation provided health care to millions of children. And that is just one example of government work HRC did when she was stationed in the Vice President's offices.

As for the decline in black poverty, it's not hard to get those numbers down if you throw enough people in jail, as black incarceration rates were high during the Clinton years.

Not only are you wrong but that quote is insulting to Black people to imply that Black poverty went down because Black's committed crimes and went to jail. Thus, I will mark your post as a troll post.

Are you denying that welfare reform created poverty?

I don't know much about the welfare aspect of the Clinton economic plan, but I do know that the overall plan created...
-record-low poverty rates
-the longest economic expansion in U.S. history
-the lowest unemployment since the early 1970s
-the lowest poverty rates for single mothers, Black Americans, and the aged

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Adm inistration#The_economy


by Nancy Kallitechnis on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 02:45:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: politics/leadership (none / 0)

I strongly disagree about nepotism not getting Hillary her senate seat.  Don't know about her position in the Rose law firm, but was her husband not a powerful governor at the time?  If the Clinton admin did so much to reduce poverty, how do you explain articles like this?:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun199 9/welf-j02.shtml

In any event, a president's legacy is not defined by what happens during the years he was president, but rather, what happens after his presidency.  It's the long-term impact that matters.  


by greenboy on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 11:23:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: politics/leadership (none / 0)

I strongly disagree about nepotism not getting Hillary her senate seat.

You have the right to disagree, but facts are facts.  Webster's defines nepotism as "favoritism based on kinship."  That means favoring one's own relatives. Since none or almost none of the voters hiring Clinton were her relatives, then she did not get hired (elected) because of nepotism.

Don't know about her position in the Rose law firm, but was her husband not a powerful governor at the time?

Yes, Bill was Governor of Arkansas when Hillary became a full-partner at the Rose Law Firm. However, to prove she got the promotion because of nepotism you would need to show that the hiring manager(s) were relatives of Clinton.

If the Clinton admin did so much to reduce poverty, how do you explain articles like this?: http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun199 9/welf-j02.shtml

I agree that some people became poorer during the Clinton years but more people rose out of poverty, and so the net gain is positive, thus President Clinton reduced poverty. Also, most of the figures in the article you linked were from studies that ended in 1995-1996 and by that time Clinton was working on adjusting any problems that occurred in his economic policy.  As political analyst Mike Hersh says...

President Clinton signed a bad "welfare reform" bill in 1996, but Clinton vetoed a worse bill twice, winning concessions each time including - increased child care funding (by $4 billion), worker retraining, extensions for benefits, exceptions for "hard cases" and more.

Also...

15 million working families enjoyed tax relief under President Clinton's expanded Earned Income Tax Credit. Thanks to Clinton, the EITC lifted 4.3 million people out of poverty in 1998 alone.

1.5 million children benefited when Clinton more than doubled federal funding for child care.

Clinton increased funding for the Head Start program by 90 percent in FY 2000 so 880,000 children had a better chance to learn and grow.

Clinton increased the minimum wage from $4.25 to $5.15 per hour and demanded an increase to $6.15.

The poverty rate fell from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 12.7 percent in 1998. That's the lowest poverty rate since 1979 and the largest five-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1965-1970).

The African-American poverty rate dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level ever recorded and the largest five-year drop in African-American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1972).

The poverty rate for Hispanics fell to the lowest level since 1979, and dropped to 25.6 percent in 1998.

In 1999, the homeownership rate was 66.8 percent -- the highest ever recorded. Minority homeownership rates were also the highest ever recorded.

Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, child poverty declined from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 18.9 percent in 1998 -- the biggest five-year drop in nearly 30 years.

http://www.mikehersh.com/President_Clint on_Eight_Great_Years.shtml

In any event, a president's legacy is not defined by what happens during the years he was president, but rather, what happens after his presidency.  It's the long-term impact that matters.

No, a president is defined by what happens during and after her/his presidency. President Clinton helped people a lot during his presidency and he provided a cushion for them when Bush started reversing Clinton's policies. For example, if a person bought a house and saved $30,000 during Clinton's years then when the Bush administration policies started harming the economy that person had a cushion of homeownership and money in the bank that they could use to help them survive the negative Bush policies.

Clinton's eight years gave many people a jumpstart and that is a lasting contribution. There is no way that Clinton, or any other president, can dictate what the next president does.  Clinton did what he did, and he did a lot of good.


by Nancy Kallitechnis on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 01:38:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: politics/leadership (none / 0)

The favoritism by kinship Hillary received was from her husband who used the enormous power of the white house (some people were even allegedly pardoned to win support for Hillary according to Christopher Hitchens), use his own personal popularity, media connections, fund-raising apparatus, and control over the part machinery to get Hillary elected (diverting resources from Gore's presidential run in the process, which was convenient because a Gore victory would have impeded Hillary's future plans to run for president).  True you can't inherit votes through family, but you can inherit all the resources you need to get those votes, or would you argue that George W. Bush is also a self-made man and didn't inherit political power from his dad?

Similar arguments can probably be made about Hillary's legal career, especially if it was in the law firm's best interest to have connections to the governor. I admire Bill Clinton for being a self-made man but I refuse to extend the same admiration to his wife or the current president who clearly aren't.

As for Bill's record on poverty, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until I see strong evidence otherwise, but all of those accomplishments don't mean anything if his wife lost both houses of congress (according to David Broke), and a pointless romance with Monica allowed Bush to defeat Gore.  The most important part of any presidency is the strategic exit.  


by greenboy on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 02:21:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: politics/leadership (none / 0)

True you can't inherit votes through family, but you can inherit all the resources you need to get those votes, or would you argue that George W. Bush is also a self-made man and didn't inherit political power from his dad?

I think everyone is partly self-made. You seem to automaticaly assume that people whose family connections/wealth/status, etc. help them win elections are by default worse leaders than those who did not have family help. I don't think so.  For example, Frankline Delano Roosevelt's fifth cousin, Theodore Roosevelt, was a U.S. President and Franklin married Theodore Roosevelt's niece, Eleanor, who had a close relationship with her uncle. FDR's relatives and wealth he inherited from his family helped him rise in politics. FDR is one of the greatest presidents in U.S. history and the fact that he received enormous help from his family doesn't make him less of a leader. Likewise, the fact that HRC has a relative who was a president doesn't make her less of a leader. I believe she can be as great a president as FDR or maybe greater.

Also, our country has a history of political dynasties as the Seattle Times Reports:

A full 45 percent of the members of the first Congress in 1789 had a relative who was also serving, according to Pedro Dal Bo, professor of economics at Brown University and co-author of a study on congressional dynasties. Two hundred years later, 10 percent of Congress has a close relative who has also served in the House or Senate.

The evidence is all around: the Gores, the Murkowskis, the Rockefellers, the Bakers, the Doles, the Dodds, the Tsongases, the Chafees. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi is the daughter of former Rep. Thomas D'Alesandro Jr.
...
Stephen Hess, a historian at the Brookings Institution, is the author of the 1966 book "America's Political Dynasties," which notes that there have been 700 families with two or more members of Congress, and they account for 1,700 of the 10,000 men and women who have served in the House and Senate.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/na tionworld/2004164299_dynasty05.html



by Nancy Kallitechnis on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 05:52:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: politics/leadership (none / 0)

"You seem to automaticaly assume that people whose family connections/wealth/status, etc. help them win elections are by default worse leaders than those who did not have family help. I don't think so."

Generally speaking, I think that's true.  Who do you think tend to better business people:  Those who build a billion dollar business or those who just inherited a billion dollars from their spouse or parent?

I also think if Hillary became president it would send a message to young girls that the way to become president is to marry one, which is pretty anti-feminist.

Also if I were a woman who became governor of a state with no help from my husband, and had plans to run for president, I'd be pretty pissed about having Hillary come along and steal my thunder as the first woman president, mostly because she married the right guy.


by greenboy on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 08:07:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: politics/leadership (none / 0)

Who do you think tend to better business people:  Those who build a billion dollar business or those who just inherited a billion dollars from their spouse or parent?

I judge a business person on their ability to create profits and their ethical character.  I look at their accomplishements and their relatives are of no concern to me in judging their business ability.

...if I were a woman who became governor of a state with no help from my husband, and had plans to run for president, I'd be pretty pissed about having Hillary come along and steal my thunder as the first woman president, mostly because she married the right guy.

If I were that woman I would hold no grudge against an opponent male or female whose husband or any other family member gave them a boost in status.  I would judge my opponent based on her/his ability to lead and accomplishments.  If they are a better leader and have more accomplishments than me and they won a fair fight without corruption, bigotry, media and party favoritism then I would probably think that they deserved the job.


by Nancy Kallitechnis on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 08:20:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You let me know (none / 0)

next time a woman gets chained to a truck and dragged until she's dead.


by JJE on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 08:10:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You let me know (2.00 / 2)

This conversation is DISGUSTING.

You let me know next time a man, of ANY race, is laughed at in the mainstream on a regular basis for dressing in a suit  as though it is somehow cute...@@

You let me know how women's rights compared to racial equality in this country. Hell watch the movie "The Color Purple" to see how it the tier system of equality worked itself out.

No - when a women is raped or beat for daring to be mouthy or a bitch it doesn't quite get the same media attention now does it...


by jrsygrl on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 08:51:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the point was (none / 0)

that the oppression olympics are stupid.  arguing over who has it worse is stupid.  but stupid is as stupid does.


by JJE on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:07:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the point was (2.00 / 1)

The point is the diary is a stupid attempt to trivialize a very real issue which is apparently much worse then many seem to realize in this country.  I think the sentiment is in extremely poor taste; racism & sexism is wrong.  In many ways discrimination against women, for some reason, is given less consideration it seems which is disconcerting on many levels given what has been shown to be considered acceptable levels of discourse in the mainstream.


by jrsygrl on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:42:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You let me know (2.00 / 2)

You seem to imply that racists inflict more physical/mortal harm against Black men then sexists inflict against females. Not true. In India, more than 6,000 ''bride burnings'' or other dowry deaths were reported in 1997. The women died because they did not bring what in-laws considered satisfactory dowries or, sometimes, because the grooms were not happy with brides chosen by their families.

The State Department, in its latest annual survey of human rights, published on Feb. 25, said about 10,000 cases of female infanticide were reported in India annually, not counting an unknown number of abortions to avoid giving birth to girls

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.ht ml?res=9406E1D71E38F93AA35750C0A9669C8B6 3&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=prin t

"Canadian novelist Margaret Atwood once asked a male friend why men feel threatened by women. He replied: "They are afraid women will laugh at them." She then asked a group of women why they felt threatened by men. They answered: "We're afraid of being killed" (Femicide: Sexist Terrorism against Women by Jane Caputi and Diana E.H. Russell, page 13)


by Nancy Kallitechnis on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not really (none / 0)

My point was more about the foolishness of trying to compare ism A with ism B.  

Citing statistics about bride burnings in India in a conversation about racism and sexism in America is a great illustration of how silly the "I'm more oppressed" argument is, so I thank you for that.


by JJE on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:23:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not really (2.00 / 1)

The diary winds up simply trivializing the issues that exist. There is no reason to even post this. Racism is horrible & still exists in this country. Something that has become very obvious however is that people in the mainstream seem to have no problem making statements against women that would NEVER be made against someone of a minority race. And the fact that so many seem to either not care or ridicule it when it occurs is troubling. The fact that ALL discrimination is not treated as equally outrageous is horrifying, disgusting and, as someone who has to walk out the door everyday and deal with that attitude, alarmingly eye opening. You get it now???


by jrsygrl on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:50:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i agree (none / 0)

Something that has become very obvious however is that people in the mainstream seem to have no problem making statements against women that would NEVER be made against someone of a minority race. And the fact that so many seem to either not care or ridicule it when it occurs is troubling.

I agree.  And the fact that people allow extreme sexism to happen without condemning it indicates they are sexist. After all, if they thought it was wrong then the natural thing would be to condemn it.


by Nancy Kallitechnis on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:37:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i agree (none / 0)

Or to automatically have at least the same filter one would have prior to saying something tasteless about another minority or oppressed group.  I don't get why there is this free for all pass when it comes to saying things that continue to demean and subjugate an entire class of people. And it takes a major effort for people to even identify at times what is wrong with the offensive item!  Our society is definitely conditioned with a different POV when it comes to gender discrimination; until this primary I either denied or honestly didn't realize how bad the chasm was.  As a professional woman it is frightening.  


by jrsygrl on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 09:10:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

sexism (